DKP

Right, so we have a DKP system...

Do we actually use it?

I'm saying this because I'm still slightly peeved by what happened last week to Zorg and I regarding the loot system we use in karazhan.

Zorg and I both had to roll against disposable pug nobodies for some purple loot. I find this unfair, and assume I speak for all guild members on this matter. If we have a DKP system then no rolling should be neccessary as the loot is given to the person who has attendened and helped the guild the most. That is fair.

May I suggest we either:

a) Scrap the DKP system if it isn't going to be used

b) Enforce it

The lack of protocol and enforcement leaves us, as individuals, in a state of awkward uncertainty with regard to the need for effort, attendance, and commeradery in the guild. If the loot gets given to a stranger, then why bother?

In the short term it'll simply cause resentment and hostility in the guild. Without a sense of cohesion and teamwork, guilds can't progress because people are less likely to enjoy a raid.

In the long term, people will get pissed off and leave the guild.


That is all I have to say on the matter, and hope the lootmaster reads this


If it happens again I will be forced to strip off and stop healing or psychic scream a group of mobs down a hostile corridor like this ----->

I see your point here dude and i believe you are right.But...
When we recruit a pug for a guild run its quite difficult to use DKP system cause this would be unfair for the pug.Of course i would prefer to break the pugs heart rather than a guildies. Moreover if we dont let the pug have a chance to get loot that might be harmful to our reputation as a guild; it depends on what kind of person he is.This is not so
possible to happen but u never know!!!!
I agree with you that the DKP system has to start working properly so there will be no misunderstandings in the future like this and also i believe that we should never ever and for no reason take a pug in a run even if this means that the raid is called off.
It is critical to keep our members.The roster is almost enough and with a few more additions we will be more than fine.


Cheers everyone

Ok so I see your problems. And I know we have to do against these.

BUT. The thing is that we can't use DKP based item purchase if we have pugs because that way the pugs won't be able to loot and therefore our reputation as guild decreases.

I think the solution is that we only invite pugs we do trust and do something like we did last night (05.06.). DKP was still awarded tho we rolled on items to give chance to the pugs to have loot. They accepted it and even agreed to put some blue stuff in our gbank instead to roll greed on them.

we can try this system i copied it form Existence's forum. it sounds like a good system.
i have not changed name or anything in it so u get the orginal

What is it?
For all comntent not yet on farm, and for non-raid loot distribution, we use a custom system with locked 'priority lists'. Right now, 4 lists have been created: ZulAman, 25 mans, Off spec, and Guild Bank.
New recruits will go to the bottom of all lists, and work their way up by attending raids, the same way everyone else does. The lists are saved between raids so you will keep the position you have at the end of one raid and carry it over to the next you attend.

The basic premise is that every time loot is handed out, if you are in the raid you will either move to the bottom of the list if you are the one receiving loot, or move up the list one space if not. Every item that drops is bid on by all members that want it, and the person highest on the list wins. There are a couple of exceptions, but these are explained below.


My alt can beat his main because its higher on a list? Madness!
There is still an element of common sense involved. Put simply:

Member > Inactive recently repromoted > Recruit > Alt > AWOL

This applies to whether the list is being used or not, and may result in you being asked to retract your bid by the Master Looter if someone with higher priority but lower list position than you bids on an item. Main spec bids are taken first (either on the ZA or 25 man list) then if no-one wants the item, the same order is taken for bids on the Off spec list.
Alts have equal priority to mains in all zones not on farm, as they will only attend raids if they have been specifically asked to by the GM's at the expense of that players main character.
You should also remember that alt's do not get separate places on the list; they share the players' main character's space, however will have the luxury of only being suicided on the off spec list if they recieve loot. This ensures that no-one misses out on loot with their main character because they geared up their alt when we asked them to bring it, and kept losing their list position.


How do you/I keep track of it?
The loot system will be maintained by an addon called Suicide Kings Geo (SKG), which all GM's have installed.
You will be able to see your position on any list if you whisper "suicide" to any GM, or alternatively check the dedicated page on the website.


How do you give out loot?
When the master looter (ML) puts up an item for bidding, you will see all instructions for bidding in raid chat. Essentially you whisper "bid" to the ML to register your interest in an item, and "retract" if you change your mind. You will have 30 seconds in which to do this, unless you specifically ask the ML for longer if you are comparing items for example. When bidding is closed at the end of this, the winner will be announced and the ML will hand the winner the item and the add-on handles moving the player to the bottom of the list. Everyone else will move up the list as a result, with the exception of 'locked' members.


How do locked positions work?
This example using a list made up of our GM's should help explain.
A position that has been locked will not move when the positions on the list change.

Example: Vorash and Karamala can't attend the next raid, so they will be locked on the list below. This means they keep their positions (1 and 5) and will not move up the list when someone gets loot.

1. Vorash (locked)
2. Hwootton
3. Hairybanana
4. Hassmaster
5. Karamala (locked)
6. Brond
7. Hildegard

During the raid [bow of imba] drops, and Hairybanana receives it. He is moved to the bottom of the list and everyone below him, but not locked, moves up one step.

1. Vorash (locked)
2. Hwootton
3. Hassmaster
4. Brond
5. Karamala (locked)
6. Hildegard
7. Hairybanana

Notice that Vorash and Karamala still are at no. 1 and 5 but that Brond now is above Karamala because her position is locked, whereas he is in the raid. Vorash remains at no. 1 for the same reason; he has after all done something to deserve that position and he should not be moved simply because he can't attend one raid.


What if I sign up but theres no room in the raid?
If you are queued, and are online at raid start time in case you are needed, you will be placed on reserve. We will unlock your position in this circumstance, and you will move up the list as loot is handed out as if you were in the raid. If you are late for a raid for any reason, whether queued or drafted, you will remain frozen on the list. In the latter case you will also lose your raid spot, so it is important to post a note on your sign-up if you know you're going to be a little late.
Please note that in extreme circumstances we can lock your position even while you are raiding, as outlined in the guild rules, as a disciplinary measure.


What loot does this apply to?
This is for epic quality loot only. Bind on pickup loot is handled via the appropriate main loot list, and bind on equip is via the Guild Bank list.
In Karazhan, as this is considered a farm raid, all loot will be rolled on with the above priorities in mind only. Remember that recruits only have raised priority here if specifically asked to attend.
If a BoE epic drops, those in the raid will have first refusal on it if they need it, otherwise it will go into the Guild Bank (More details on this can be found in the Guild Bank FAQ here.)

Rare quality loot will be handed out to a random raid member, with everyone having equal chance on each piece.
Uncommon quality loot will be handed out to random raid members until everyone has a piece, at which point the cycle resets.
Plans of all qualities, whether BoE or BoP, will be rolled on by all raid members with the appropriate skill. The highest roll will win the plans, and if there is no-one of the required profession present for BoE plan drops, they will be sent to the Guild Bank.
Mounts and other exceptional drops will be rolled on by all in the raid. The highest roll being the winner again.
There are exceptions to some of these rules, such as [Mark of the Illidari] and [Heart of Darkness]. These will be stored in the Guild Bank for members to request.



I still have questions!
Please post them on the forum, or ask one of our GM's in game. The following sites also offer useful information on the Suicide Kings system upon which our system is based.

Official SuicideKings forum. (Try the post titled "SK user manual")
WoWWiki SuicideKings page.

so what do u think?